Classroom to Copy #8: Former Teacher Charlotte Ellis Shares Insider Tips on Balancing Teaching, Copywriting, and Building a Lucrative Writing Business

In the latest episode of “Classroom to Copy,” I had an inspiring conversation with my special guest Charlotte Ellis, a former preschool teacher who successfully made the leap from teaching to copywriting. 

🎧 Listen with an AI transcript here.

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In this episode, you will discover:

>> How Charlotte gradually built her copywriting business while still teaching – including some very practical advice and strategies…

>> Her unique way of “niche-ing down” and how she helps entrepreneurs stand out in competitive industries.…

>> How she leveraged her background in Child and Family Development and her teaching experiences in Cambodia and New Zealand to become the copywriter she is today…

>> The importance of discipline, consistency, and setting boundaries when juggling teaching and copywriting…

>> Our insights into the financial aspects of transitioning from teaching to freelancing…

>> Charlotte’s networking strategies for attracting leads and dream clients.

Some great quotes from Charlotte!

About tipping your toes in the water: “I think it’s a good idea, before you go all in on something, to try it out. Like the first course that I did was a pretty low investment…. Try a couple of different things as long as you’re not in that state of trying different things for too long, like as long as you have a goal of trying things in order to make a decision.”

About why she works with parenting, weddings, and real estate businesses: “To me, it’s about building that life that you’ve always dreamed of… I work with their clients because you wouldn’t really work in that industry unless you cared about people and it attracts people who are passionate about families and creating a good experience for people.”

About how teaching preschoolers can be similar to writing copy: “You have to start with understanding them first… You have to get on their level and let them know — ‘I know you’re not happy about doing this. I get it. You’re frustrated…’ — before they’re gonna listen to you.”

Meet Charlotte Ellis, web copy extraordinaire!

Originally from the US, Charlotte has traveled the globe and taught in diverse settings, from running an English school in Cambodia to working as a team leader and preschool teacher in New Zealand. She discovered the world of copywriting through a Facebook ad and eventually transitioned into copywriting full-time. Today, she lives in New Zealand with her family. She writes web copy for industries she’s passionate about, such as parenting, weddings, and real estate.

To learn more about Charlotte and her copywriting services, you can connect with her on LinkedIn or visit her website.

Full Transcript: Transcribed by and might contain inaccuracies.

Tania Yeo 0:00
Oh okay. Hi. Hi everyone so it’s Tania back again with another episode of classroom to copy and I have a very special guest with me today and very excited for you guys to meet her because I think she is really interesting story to tell about her experience from transitioning from teaching to copywriting and her name is Charlotte Ellis, would you like to introduce yourself and you know what it is that you do now? To the audience?

Charlotte Ellis 0:34
Sure. Um, yeah, so I’m Charlotte, I, my backgrounds in teaching. I was a teacher for almost a decade and then around this time last year, so like, it was about April 2022. I started thinking about an exit plan from teaching and kind of fell into copywriting started building up my business little bit by little and yeah, in November, I was able to leave teaching and focus on my copywriting business full time. So now I mostly work with entrepreneurs that are trying to stand out from their competition, especially in really competitive niches, where their face their name is their brands that helping them find what makes them unique so they can build their own business.

Tania Yeo 1:24
Cool. Do you want to share like where you’re based?

Charlotte Ellis 1:28
Yeah, so I’m American, but I’m based in New Zealand.

Tania Yeo 1:33
How did that come to be? So I mean, your your teaching job? I’m getting ahead, but I know you’re like your first was. I stalked you on LinkedIn first. You were a director English school. Director in Cambodia, and then team leader and like a preschool teacher in New Zealand.

Charlotte Ellis 1:54
Right. Yeah. So um, I studied Child and Family Development at university in the US and then afterwards, I know, I knew that I wanted to move overseas and do like charity work. So my husband and I moved over to well, we lived in a couple of different places in Europe, and then we settled in Cambodia. And, yeah, by the time I was 23, I was running an English school, which is for high schoolers and university students who wanted to get into the tourism industry. So they, it was really great that they could learn from native English speakers. So my job was to not only teach in the school, but I trained teams of volunteers that will come over and teach. And then I also like developed a curriculum for the school and everything. And then I lived in Thailand for a little bit into nonprofit work there. And then after I had my first daughter, my family decided to move somewhere that was a little bit more familiar to us. We felt a little bit more like home so my husband’s a kiwi and we ended up moving to New Zealand. And that’s where I I trained to be a teacher here. So I wasn’t trained as a teacher originally, but I trained as a teacher here and was a preschool teacher and team leader for six years.

Tania Yeo 3:15
So would you say like New Zealand is your home base now? Yeah,

Charlotte Ellis 3:21
I haven’t lived in the US since 2011. So I don’t know exactly where home is, but all of a year.

Tania Yeo 3:30
Oh, gosh, that’s, I didn’t know that you lived in Europe also and then in Thailand, because when I when I left Singapore, that was my plan to like, Globe trot, you know, with my boyfriend. We just we moved to Tbilisi, Georgia, in Eastern Europe, because at the time it was the easiest for us to to meet because he’s from America. And then like in terms of visa stuff, it was easiest to meet up in, in Georgia amidst like all the COVID regulations and things like that, like they just didn’t care. But we our original plan was to live in Thailand. Yeah, and I thought I would have moved on by now but I haven’t and I ended up adopting a cat here. Yeah, I have two cats. So it slows down the travelling process a bit. Yeah. But it’s so cool to meet someone who has also you know, done the whole like, I want to go see the world thing like what made you decide to, you know, like, I know you mentioned like charity work. But what made you decide to do it overseas?

Charlotte Ellis 4:51
I think I’ve always been up for adventure. I just, I had travelled a little bit in high school to like going on school trips to Eastern Europe and spent three months in Kenya and so I was always looking for a new place to go and experience and I knew that if I didn’t do it in my 20s that I probably wouldn’t do it later on. So it was kind of like before I get settled into a serious career. I want to experience the world basically.

Tania Yeo 5:20
So awesome. What was it like? So you’re teaching high schoolers and university kids? And then in New Zealand, you taught preschool kids. So that’s like, of different age groups. What was that like?

Charlotte Ellis 5:39
I think it was culturally very different. Because in Cambodia, like there’s a real separation between teacher and student, you know, it’s the, in that culture, it’s really respectful and so the dynamic is very different, like the students where they respect and revere their teachers a lot and they really want to learn, whereas preschoolers like they’re just all over the place. And I think in a more Western culture, there’s not the same level of respect for people that are like in an authority position, for better or for worse is just different, you know. And I think, in Cambodia I had the expectations were really different because you didn’t have the same level of like government regulation like we did, but we operated because we were a nonprofit. We had our own budget, we weren’t like government funded. And we were kind of like, we weren’t a government school like a high school. We taught classes that were outside their normal curriculum, so we had more freedom there. Whereas here I taught in a like government funded preschool, even though it was private, like it gets government funding. So there are a lot more constraints around like, what you can do and yet there were way more regulations. So I have less freedom. There are a lot of pressures coming in from all sides. You know, like, when you teach high schoolers, the parents aren’t really involved in they’re also like they’re in that school because I want to learn whereas when you’re teaching preschoolers, you have like, pressures from parents that have really high expectations. You have like the budget constraints, you have lots of staff dynamics, you have you know, children’s with challenging behaviours, and so there’s just a lot going on. So it was like night and day basically. Hardly anything on

Tania Yeo 7:48
it am so surprised to hear that you faced that in a preschool because that is very similar to my experience teaching high school, like um, I guess it’s different from from like the high school students that you taught in Cambodia because like you said, they want to be there. And it’s, the parents are less involved. I mean, I volunteered in, in Cambodia when I was very young, like, like 15 and I think 18 I noticed that some days the high school students wouldn’t show up to school because they needed to help out at home like with like rice harvesting. But we definitely like no parents showing up to like, with with all that pressure, but like at preschool, that was some of the there you know, what were the things that that created that?

Charlotte Ellis 9:11
sometimes it was like, conflict between children like if their three year old came home and said that something had happened with another child, which we would have to say. They do have a big imagination. Sometimes they’re just telling you story. Yeah, other times it was actually something that needed to be managed. And then I think the other thing is the expectation that kids are going to start learning academics at an early age, which was not really it doesn’t really go with the philosophy of at least the New Zealand. Free School System is a lot more play based a lot more like let them explore. Let them have lots of free time to just engage in Messy play and run around outside and like be kids basically. So that was a lot of just managing parents expectations around like, you know, they will learn letters, they will learn numbers, but first they need to learn you know, gross motor skills, fine motor skills, they need to learn how to get along with other kids and ask for help and like, kind of those more social skills and self help skills. So it was sometimes just a matter of different expectations, what they were imagining their kids should be doing versus what we were actually doing.

Tania Yeo 10:28
Wow, that’s that’s so I mean, that what you said about like messy play and running around outside that is an education too, but it’s just very contrary to what I guess most parents have experienced themselves as you know, students so it looks so foreign to them. But so interesting. I think parents have a lot more pressure today.

Charlotte Ellis 10:57
They just want what’s like what’s best for their kids. So coming from the right place, and I think a lot of times it’s just explaining to them that like they will learn those skills. But some adults never learned how to get along with someone else or how to negotiate or how to, you know, engage as part of a team and work together. Like those types of things are also really important for little kids to practice. Yeah.

Tania Yeo 11:22
I just find it so fascinating because everything you described, I experienced the same thing but it was with high schoolers. Parents in Singapore definitely very involved in in their kids, education and even their their kids relationships with with their classmates and things like that. That’s really so like, do want to share like how you fell into copywriting and like why you picked you know, there are lots of like, you know, different okay, I shouldn’t assume but in terms of like online freelance remote work, right, there’s a lot of different possibilities. So how did you end up with you know, copywriting?

Charlotte Ellis 12:10
Um, I just kind of randomly heard of it. There was a Facebook ad for a course and it was targeting teachers so well placed to add, but it was, it had been on my mind for about two years that I wanted to do something different and I kind of on a whim, purchased this course and started going through it and I think it’s because I always really liked writing and so it seemed like it could be a really good match for me and I liked that I could kind of build it up on the side and see how I liked it. It wasn’t something where I had to go all or nothing like I could try it out. And that’s kind of what I did. I just took on some little projects. At first and then build it up slowly.

Tania Yeo 12:55
How did you find your first few projects?

Charlotte Ellis 12:59
I’m like in Facebook groups that never really, you know, like $100 to redo someone’s LinkedIn page $100 for real estate bio, like just really tiny projects, but it was just enough to build momentum because then I could go for bigger projects and actually had a couple samples to show people.

Tania Yeo 13:20
That’s so cool. I started in Upwork and I got some really bad advice I had got good advice and bad advice like for how to approach upward you know, some people were like, you know, just do first thing for $5. So that you’ll review, but it was very enlightening. So why would you say to like, let’s say to someone who’s also a teacher who’s also thinking of transitioning into copywriting. Like, you know, would you recommend the same path that you took or is there anything that you think you might do differently? Knowing what you know now?

Charlotte Ellis 14:11
I think it’s a good idea to before you go all in on something to try it out. Like the first course that I did was a pretty low investment. It was like $500 or something like that. So it was enough where I I was motivated to do it, but it wasn’t so much that I was like this has to work out or else like I think you kind of have to do something a little bit before you realise. Like whether it’s for you or not. So I would say like it’s okay to try a couple of different things as long as you’re not in that state of trying different things for too long, like as long as you have a goal of trying things in order to make a decision. And then I think a lot of it just has to do with like because teaching is really draining. You have to be committed to taking those little steps, even if they’re small steps, but you just have to keep showing that once you have decided to do a course or join a community or whatever it is like there’s always going to be a reason to not do it because you’re drained. You’re tired, tired at the end of the day, but you just have to keep on pushing and showing up with consistent steps towards your goal.

Tania Yeo 15:27
Do you want to talk about how you balanced you know, those copywriting goals and the course with because you’re doing that concurrently with teaching right and Yeah.

Charlotte Ellis 15:42
What was the I have two kids? Sorry. I have two kids two. Yeah, that was awesome.

Tania Yeo 15:50
So yeah, trying to balance out of that.

Charlotte Ellis 15:54
Um, so I was really intentional about setting aside the same time every day to work on copywriting. So I kind of set out like from 7pm to 830. I would do copywriting and I think that was a manageable enough time. Sometimes I only did one hour a day, but it was enough where I set it aside, and I planned on it and I didn’t plan to do anything else during that time. So that really helped me be consistent rather than just trying to fit in at random. And then I also would once I started getting clients I would go to the library for about three or four hours, either on Saturday or Sunday and just knock out my client work. So I think having that time that you intentionally set aside to do it because if you just say I’ll just do it sometime you’ll probably never do it.

Tania Yeo 16:45
You see discipline Okay, chaotic when I first started copy, I think he just laid out a super great and like, manageable system. Yeah, that you know, if someone had told me that that’s why I could have done the beginning. But yeah,

Charlotte Ellis 17:09
I’d too. Because otherwise, like there’s always more that you can do to so you also have to set boundaries around like, I need to have a day off. So if I worked on Saturday, I need to take Sunday off or if I am going to work tomorrow on Sunday, then I need to take Saturday off like I think it has to go both ways. You can’t. You don’t want to overdo it either. But you can’t just come up with excuses all the time and never do it.

Tania Yeo 17:33
Yeah, I think that’s a really great reminder for our listeners also because, like for me I I was teaching like two subjects and like a lot of classes. So a lot of my days like there are some days I remember, especially as an art teacher, I had to go in very early to set up all the art materials. And personally, I know there’s no way I could have done what Charlotte did with two kids, you know, so it’s really different for everyone. I think Ben did like a mix of what you and I did so like he he did the whole you know, being a super disciplined person and like setting aside time to to practice but he also like to have a few months where he he just focused on copy. He had saved up some money, you know, so he felt like safe enough to to move on to copywriting. Which brings me to my next question because I think it’s something that people don’t discuss enough of when it comes to going from a nine to five job to freelancing, you know, if you don’t mind sharing like what steps did you take to feel like financially secure enough to to say, Okay, I’m ready to leave teaching and this is what I’m going to do. I’m going to start doing copy full time.

Charlotte Ellis 19:08
Yeah, I think so it was, let’s see, I started around April. And then by about August, I was working I had probably 10 or 12 hours a week of client work to do so I kind of got to the point where I felt like and I don’t mean this to come across the wrong way but that being at my day job was actually like preventing me from growing. It was like I got to a point where I couldn’t do both anymore. And so I was either going to have to start turning down client work or leave my job and so I think like financially, I was making the same in those 10 or 12 hours a week as I was making working 32 hours a week as a teacher. So that’s that was the tipping point for me where I was like, Well, I’ve actually already replaced my income. And I think the other thing that I did was I knew that I could always go back to subbing because especially here preschool teachers are in really high demand. So I knew that if I ever needed to then I could go back and do something a couple of days a week to fill in the gaps. So that kind of gave me a safety net mentally to know I’m not going to like be broke. I have a way to make money. And if I have a slow month, then I’ve got a backup plan basically.

Tania Yeo 20:29
Yeah, I think having that plan is so important. I definitely had something similar like I was still tutoring on the side. And that was enough to you know, cover expenses here in Tbilisi. There was something I was going to ask. Oh, wait so you like you managed to replace your teaching income? Like almost wasn’t like within a year?

Charlotte Ellis 20:55
within about five or six months Yep.

Tania Yeo 20:57
Wow. So like, on top of all of the you know, the copies like you’re studying copy, you’re doing client work on the weekends. Like how were you? Like getting clients like will you also spending time on like marketing yourself and like outreach? Like what was the what what did the process of like acquiring clients look like for you? Because that’s like, a hidden part of the whole copywriting business that you know, you got to go out and find people that will pay you to write it’s not just like hiding in your writers cave and writing all day.

Charlotte Ellis 21:35
Yeah, I know. I worked really hard on building up my network. And I also had one client that was giving me about 20 hours a week of work. So that helped a lot. They actually found me through my website, which I still don’t know exactly how they found. Me. But I’m on a couple of different platforms for people looking for freelancers, but not like Upwork they’re more like high quality one. So I do get inbound leads from those and then spending time on LinkedIn. Going to in person networking and trying to take advantage of like people that my past clients know. Yeah, trying to get in front of people that are in their industry, which is how I kind of got into like, working in the wedding industry is I had one client who was really good and then I got a couple more clients that were similar because they saw my work on his website, and then they’re like, Oh, I really like your style. So trying to kind of figure out okay, I’ve gotten a couple of clients this way. How do I lean into that more because I think it’s different for everyone. And you hear a lot of like a, you know, send cold DNS or like go to in person networking or there’s no point doing in person networking, get on LinkedIn. So for me, it was more like, what’s already working. Let’s do more of that.

Tania Yeo 22:55
Oh, that’s so smart. Yeah. And you were mentioning some I’m sure that you know, our listeners would be, you know, keen to know, like, what platforms were you on that? You mentioned the high quality ones?

Charlotte Ellis 23:10
Yeah, so there’s one it’s just only for New Zealand though. It’s called unicorn factory and people can hire freelancers through there. So it’s not super helpful for people that are outside of New Zealand. But yeah, that’s the main one. And then through my copywriting course that I did. There’s a good Facebook group where people a lot of times are looking to outsource projects or so I also got a couple good clients from there people posting like, Hey, this is not really my thing. I don’t have time to take this on. So being really active in those type of communities. And then there’s also a local small business owners Facebook group that I’m a part of, and so being really active in there and kind of getting my name out there when people ask like, Hey, can someone look over my website? Um, you know, not getting any leads from it and then trying to get in there and be like, here are some things that you can do. By the way, if you need any help with copywriting, like just kind of positioning myself in those type of groups,

Tania Yeo 24:12
by offering value and building up like kind of like name recognition. That’s, that’s awesome. And you’re doing all of this, like networking on top of, like, were you also doing that while you’re teaching? Yeah, which how much time would you estimate? If you don’t have an answer, it’s fine. But like,

Charlotte Ellis 24:37
yeah, so I was, I guess it’s helpful to tell you that I was working like I wouldn’t say, I wouldn’t call it part time teaching, but I was working like nine a nine to 330 or nine to 430 day. So I wasn’t it’s not quite as intense as some people that are like at school from seven to five or something. So that that’s different, I’ll admit, like I was I was working like 34 hours a week in teaching so I did have a little bit of extra time. So sometimes, you know, I would come home and things like getting on Facebook. I’m like, I’m already on there. So I might as well just been an extra five minutes, like scrolling the page and seeing if there’s anything that I can answer, you know, like trying to kind of take advantage of, I’m already like, just taking a break from doing like I’m not really doing anything. So I might as well just get on LinkedIn and post something or comment, like trying to just grab like five or 10 minute, little chunks of time to do stuff. Rather than like I’m gonna sit down and be on LinkedIn for an hour like, Yeah, I think just trying to grab like little moments here and there and to do stuff like that.

Tania Yeo 25:49
Yeah, I think that’s that’s some really practical advice for you know, generating leads and keeping your pipeline full. So, like, this is the My favourite thing to ask, like, you’ve talked about living in different countries. You’ve talked about being a teacher to high schoolers to university students, and then training other teachers and priests and then teaching preschoolers and then also working with parents, you know? How do you think these past experiences have like shaped you as a copywriter? If you think they have?

Charlotte Ellis 26:33
I think they have because when I started thinking about like, what type of businesses that I want to write for, like, I’m a really values driven person, like the fact that I wanted to spend my 20s like, doing charity work overseas, like it kind of shows that I really value like giving back and like, I want to make an impact with my life and with my work and so just because I’ve left teaching it doesn’t mean that like that goes away. It’s this is just a different avenue now. So in when I was thinking like, how do I leverage my past experiences, to position myself as an expert in copywriting? i That’s how I’ve kind of landed on working with parenting businesses and like parenting coaches and authors and speakers and things because that’s something that I already know a lot about. I’m passionate about it. You know, I studied family development in school. So I’ve worked with lots of families. So it’s something that I’m already passionate about, but it’s just working in that industry in a different way. Yeah, and even like with the wedding industry, which I’m, I’ve worked in a lot. I kind of fell into it by accident, but there are a lot of parallels. It’s to me, it’s about like, you know, people have aspirations for their life, whether that’s, you know, building a family or getting married and having like, their loved ones all around them and celebrating New Beginnings, like to me it’s it’s about building that life that you’ve always dreamed up. And I think that I can, like my clients who are working in those industries, I can relate to the care that they put into their work working with their clients, because you wouldn’t really work in that industry unless you cared about people and you know, like, it attracts people that are people, people who are passionate about families and yeah, creating a good experience for people. So that’s kind of how it all works together.

Tania Yeo 28:40
I guess it’s a great segue into, you know, like you You called it a dream builders niche name, right? Yeah. Do you want to talk more about how you because I think that’s a really great way to position yourself instead of like thinking solely in terms of like one specific industry. Do you want to share that your thought process behind that, and how you came to settle on that name?

Charlotte Ellis 29:14
Yeah, so I think it’s been a process of like, a couple of months figuring out how to narrow down who I want to work with and I think it did come from a place of like, what am i values? What do I like, what will I feel happy about spending my time doing and what’s meaningful for me, and I had gotten some traction in the wedding industry. And then I’ve worked for quite a few real estate agents, which I also really like. And then like the parenting aspect is another part of it, which Yeah, has to do more with my background. So I was thinking how do these things connect and that’s kind of how I came up with the dream builders because yeah, it’s about building family and you know, real estate agents help people get into their dream home. That’s something that a lot of people aspire to is owning a home and it’s about. Yeah, like, a wedding is not just about like having a nice event. But to me, it’s about like blending of cultures, like different traditions coming together, like you’re forming a new family by two families becoming one and if you buy a house, it’s not just a building. It’s like a place where you have shared memories and you host loved ones and like you. Yeah, it’s it’s more than just the place you know. And then like in the parenting industry, if you are reaching out to a parenting coach or like speakers, they’re helping people who are they want that loving family that they’ve always dreamed up, but maybe they need a little bit of support in creating that. So that’s kind of like the common thread is Dream builders. Yeah. creating the life that you’ve always dreamed of.

Tania Yeo 31:11
Yeah, that’s so cool that you managed to find that commonality. And I can hear from just the way you’re talking about these different industries that you know, you’re very, like deeply in touch with. Like what matters most to the audience. You know, yeah. Because I’ve always wondered like in like, you’ve defined this niche for yourself, but there’s still like, sub segments, you know, slightly different audiences. How do you approach like crafting a message across? I mean, not across but like, working with a wedding planning client and then moving on to work with like a parenting coach, you know, do you ever have any, like challenges like okay, now I have to switch to you know, switch my brain to like this different industry and the language that’s unique to their audience.

Charlotte Ellis 32:13
Um, I think, like, the main strategy that I use is having for every client, I have a document full of all the research that I’ve come up with for them and like I, I, when I start working with a client, I asked them all kinds of questions about their, their ideal client and what their pain points are and how they’re helping solve them. And then another thing that I really like to do is find testimonials of their clients working with them because then you can see the language that their clients use, you can see what they care about what they’re looking for, and like how the person that I’m writing for creates that experience for them. So I think, to me, it just comes down to being really organised and I do I have to kind of shift gears in my brain, depending on who I’m writing for that day. But I think that I do, because there’s that common thread. It is still kind of coming from the same place of people having the aspiration what is it that they truly want, you know, they want to buy their dream home, but it’s not actually about the home that’s about the experience, the memories that they’re going to make. So same with you want a beautiful wedding, but it’s not because you just want to have like nice flowers. It’s because you want to make meaningful memories with people that you love the most. So it’s like to me it does all come down to a similar motivation. So I think that helps a lot.

Tania Yeo 33:47
Yeah, and I’m a huge fan of this whole thing because it’s so unique and it’s such a cool way of thinking about niches and you know, people always wonder, Should I niche down or like some people are like, No, there’s no point in doing that. Yeah, this might be a stretch, but have you? I mean, I was just thinking about how as a teacher, you know, we were dream builders to like building our students. Yeah. Like, do you do you see any commonalities in you know, what it takes to connect with your students and what you do now as a copywriter?

Charlotte Ellis 34:27
Um, yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with like, especially when I was working in preschool, because that’s more recent to me. It’s a lot of working like with families, and a lot of it comes down to listening like people really want you to listen to them. They want to feel understood. And I think that’s something that I can offer to my clients is I try to spend a lot of time listening to their story, their why behind their business, what makes them passionate about it, because I think that establishes trust between me and them and I want them to feel like I’m on their team and that I want to support them as a person and in their own dreams to build their business. So I think that’s a big part of it is like that empathy and being able to listen and understand other people. What else I know there are a lot of things. A lot of different ways, parallels, I guess, between teaching and copywriting. I think another one is that as a teacher, you have to be really reflective, like you have to always think about what’s working, what’s not working. And as a copywriter. The same thing applies like you try something and then it works. So it doesn’t work. It resonates or it doesn’t and you have to be able to be flexible. Yeah, and a lot of that comes down to reflecting to thinking over what you’ve done and being willing to shift what you’re doing.

Tania Yeo 36:04
I think you mentioned in the forum about something about what it takes to like persuade, especially to talk more about that, like, did you ever like Do you have any stories on like, you know, convincing them to I have no idea what the preschool system is like in New Zealand. I know that. You know, I taught art and literature and I felt like I had to sell my subject every day. Because when you’re a teenager is hard to see the value of those things, actually hard to see value of a lot of things to do in school. So I was wondering if you had like a similar experience of needing to persuade your students for in some shape, or form?

Charlotte Ellis 36:58
I think yeah, just so as you’re talking, I’m thinking about how usually how we would approach like from a child development perspective if you want to, like convince a preschooler or a kid to do something, you have to start with understanding them first. Before so you have to like get on their level and let them know. I know. I know. You’re not happy about doing this. I get it. You’re frustrated or whatever and just kind of like calling out where they are in the moment. And I think that there’s a big parallel between that and copywriting because he has to be able to see where people are like basically read their mind. You know, what’s going through their mind, how are they feeling right now? And then let’s work from there rather than this was where I want you to be in so I’m just going to tell you to be like that now. Like you can’t, you will have to go on that journey. And same with kids. They have to feel before they’re gonna listen to you. They have to know that you understand them and you care about where they are right now.

Tania Yeo 38:01
Yeah, I mean, the part that you said you know, when you start with connecting with their feelings, you’re frustrated right now. That’s the beginning of a lot of sales letters. I mean, yeah. Connecting with someone’s employees, right. Yeah. So the this is the great question that I got from someone about. So now that you’ve left like, Do you ever feel guilty about leaving?

Charlotte Ellis 38:32
Um, I mean, I won’t say that. I never do. Um, but I think for me, it came down to like my first responsibility is to myself in my own family, and especially as someone who has kids, like I can’t I have to put them over anyone else, you know, like, they’re my top priority and my own family has to be number one, and it doesn’t mean that I’m not making an impact but it just looks different. And I think I, I also had to remind myself like, for the kids, having a teacher that doesn’t want to be there is not doing them any favours either. You know, like, they need to have a teacher that’s passionate and that wants to be a teacher. So one side lost that passion and that drive out. I felt like I need to move on because otherwise it’s not really fair to them anymore.

Tania Yeo 39:27
Yeah, I think that last point was that’s so important because students can feel it if you don’t want to be there. Right. And like you said, it’s not doing them any favours. Yeah. So I, I don’t want to take up too much of your time. I just have like, you know, two more questions, which is, you know, what advice you know, would you give someone who’s like afraid to make the leap? Yeah, and they just want to move on, but they’re, like, like, what’s the number one thing you would tell someone who’s feeling afraid?

Charlotte Ellis 40:08
Um, I think that you have to get past the discomfort. Because like doing something new, especially as teachers like we like to be the one that knows something. And when you’re starting a new career, like you are starting from zero most of the time so like, being uncomfortable is just kind of part of the process. But if you can lean in, you know, get the resources that you need, get in a community that’s going to support you, like anyone can do it. You just need to surround yourself with the support that you’re going to need and just take things one step at a time. You know, you’re not going to be an expert overnight. And that’s, that’s fine. It takes time.

Tania Yeo 40:50
Yeah, I think the community part I just, I talk about it in every single episode, because that’s, I mean, you you transition to copy full time pretty quickly too, and I don’t know about you but for me, community is what accelerated the process for me not I mean, like hard work is super important to obviously have to like master the skill but just having the connections not just for like leads, but because you know, there are people out there who already have been through what you’re going through, right. So do you want to share like, like what what you’re working on right now? What’s next for you? You know how people can reach you?

Charlotte Ellis 41:40
Yeah, so I guess what I have been working on in the last month is putting like now that I’ve kind of got my ideal clients putting together a couple packages that I I’m trying to streamline what I offer because the first year it was kind of like I did everything and it’s reinventing the wheel with every project. And it’s not to say that I’m not open to doing different types of projects, but I’m trying to narrow narrow down a little bit and focus mostly on web copy. So I’ve just recently like packaged up my web copy into a couple of different options for clients. I’m excited about that, because it feels like a big step for me. Yeah, like, I feel like I’m being a lot more intentional about where I’m headed now, which is cool. Yeah, so that’s kind of what yeah, that’s what’s happening for me. That’s where I’m hitting this year.

Tania Yeo 42:40
So if anyone’s listening and wants to work with you, I What’s the best way to connect with you?

Charlotte Ellis 42:47
Um, I’m on LinkedIn, Charlotte Ellis or my website is copy by Charlotte

Tania Yeo 42:57
Well, thank you so much. Do you have anything that anything else you want to you want to share? To all the with all the teachers out there?

Charlotte Ellis 43:07
Um, I don’t think so. I think I think I’ve said all my advice that I have pretty much yeah, if you if you’re looking for something else, then like copywriting is a really good option. Yeah, it’s something that you can build up slowly and then transition into full time eventually. But there are a lot of other things out there too. So take your time to find the right fit.

Tania Yeo 43:35
Oh, thank you, and to anyone. Anyone who’s listening, you know, I’ll leave the links to Charlotte’s LinkedIn in her website below. And you know if you want to reach out to her, and thank you so much for your time, then stop recording now and I’ll see you guys next week. On another episode of classroom to copy

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